My precious little Nickie. in Canine Diabetes Forum

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My precious little Nickie.

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rkwhite	My precious little Nickie.		Lead	[-]
Posts: 8 09/22/11 04:27 PM	Tags : None Hi, My name is Ronda. I lost my little schnauzer/beagle to diabetes. I never even knew that canine diabetes existed until this happened. Nickie was two and a half years old. She was a happy, playful and very healthy girl. My husband and I took her with us everywhere. We travel quite a bit in a 5th wheel rv trailer and it is like our second home. Nickie had been our constant companion since she was born. She loved it! We took her on daily walks, she loved to play with other dogs including our grown children's pets. We had been in Colorado for 3 weeks and were traveling to see my parents and then head home to Tx. As we were coming out of the mountains we made a routine stop for fuel and snacks when Nickie threw up for the first time. I wasn't concerned because I thought she was just a little car sick due to the drive. No other symptoms were present. As we got closer to our destination she got sick a few more times and started to have a loose bowel. She was still playful and in good spirits. I called her Vet at my parents ( had been her Vet since her birth) he said bring her in as soon as we got there. We were only 1 hr from his office and we made one last stop. She went potty and had more loose stool and saw some cats, chased them and was full of spunk. By the time we reached his office she was having bloody stool, and started vomiting more. The vet put her on IV therapy and did the blood work to determine the cause of her sudden illness. He told us she was diabetic, her blood sugar level was at about 900 which was the worse he had ever seen. He tried everything to bring her out of it but around 7 am the next morning she passed. My husband and I are devastated. I have so many question regarding this disease. Can anyone help me? Last Edited By: rkwhite 09/22/11 04:56 PM. Edited 2 times.
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mzizgayle		#1	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/22/11 05:52 PM	ask away dear, we will answer all of your questions to the best of our ability
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rkwhite	Nickie	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 09/22/11 07:11 PM	Are dogs like Nickie born with this disease? Why didn't she ever have symptoms before? What happened to her? What could have been done for her?Do you think she wasdealing with it for a long time? What do you feed diabetic dogs? Are there breeds more prone to this? I believe the vet did all he could for her but I pray she didn't suffer at the end. I feel so guilty because I had no idea! She was so precious to us and we took such good care of her in every aspect. She was more than a pet. We were so close to her and she to us. There is such a huge void right now we miss her so much.
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mommytoNash		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 09/22/11 08:23 PM Administrator	Oh my, I am sooo sorry to hear about your sweet little dog. I can't imagine how you are feeling. I will try to answer a few questions. It does seem that some breeds are more prone to diabetes than others. Schnauzer's are one who seem to be predisposed. I believe what might have happened with Nickie is that she developed ketoacidosis. Here is a link to a page here at CSG with the symptoms, and some links at the bottom of that that explain it further. http://caninesupportgroup...m/topic/994/Ketoacidosis Unfortunately, depending on how bad it is, some dogs just don't recover from ketoacidosis. I don't think I answered all your questions, but I hope I helped a few. Most importantly, please know that you didn't cause her diabetes. I'm just so sorry this happened the way it did. I hope that hope you will open your heart to another dog soon. It's amazing what a huge hole they leave in our heart. But just having another sometimes helps us to move forward and honor the memory of the pet we lost. In other words, the hole is so huge, we need to fill it somehow. It does honor our pet that we lost. Hugs to you. And please tell us more about Nickie. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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mzizgayle		#4	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/23/11 07:17 AM	Please don't feel guilty, as Cindy said you didn't cause this, it just happens and all we can do is to try and control to the best of our ability. I inherited my diabetes since it runs in my family, even tho I did what I could to stay healthy, I still got in later in life. Humans can at least know something is off, that there is something wrong and can talk to their doctors. With the doggies it is hard to read them and realize something may be wrong. My doggies' vet once made the remark that he knew of dogs who would run after their ball on a broken leg, they don't care if they are injured just so they can have that ball. Nickie sounded like a very active happy dog, she just didn't show you enough symptoms to realize something may have been off or who knows she might have had some but because she was active, happy, she didn't care to show you. I didn't have symptoms, at least the common symptoms such as frequent urination, excessive thirst. Some dogs can be the same way. No telling how long she may have had this if she didn't present symptoms to you. Yes the dogs need to have their diet controlled, and some here home cooked for their dogs and others do well with dog food, watching of course fat content, etc and even counting carbs since the carbs are sugars. There is some foods that are no longer good for the doggies to eat, especially table scraps. If this was caught at a much earlier time, then Nickie would be getting insulin shots and her blood monitored. You would not have hurt her learning to give her the shots and checking her blood glucose levels, that part is scary to many of the newbies to this but they do get thru this step. Some approach it with determination and jump right in. Some dogs, even humans, are hard to control, so many things can cause the numbers to jus go out of wack...Even after 16 years I still have those "what the ....." moments. Checking a doggie for diabetes is not a common practice with vets...shoot even in humans during physicals and blood test, they are lucky to do an A1C test once a year, which doesn't prove anything especially if a person happened to be in control and not realize it. Don't let this scare you from getting another doggie in time, when you are ready to make that choice. Express your concerns to the vet when you take the pup to the vets and they can give a blood test to see. This disease can cause so many other problems but know it can be controlled to the best of our abilities...you become a detective in your journey when you are faced with this. do talk this out with us, and of course share with your hubby, after all he is also hurting but together you will get thru this and know Nickie is not hurting, not suffering... hugs
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rkwhite		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 09/23/11 09:31 AM	I can't tell you how much I appreciate your information and caring hearts!! It is so confusing to my husband and myself how this happened without us knowing there was a problem. It is hard for me to understand why vets don't make this a routine test when you have your pets in for their yearly visits. Especially in those breeds that are more prone to this disease. Nicky was a very active and happy girl! She never had a bad day! We kept her on a fairly good diet of dog food with of course the dog treats. We also from time to time would give her a bite of something she probably shouldn't have had but for the most part did pretty good. Is it better to prepare your dogs food from scratch or are there certain brands that are diabetic specific? Are there food preparation recipes to use? Can a dog acquire the disease over time?
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mzizgayle		#6	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/23/11 10:06 AM	http://caninesupportgroup.yuku.com/directory It is confusing, and even human doctors don't know as much as they would like to you to know. Diabetes affects each and every one of us (doggies/kitties) differently...we are not a text book disease and many doctors including humans, vets go by textbook. I live near a good teaching hospital and it is amazing how many times I have heard "but your numbers are good, you shouldn't be having symptoms, etc" Everytime I would go into a doctors office, I would have some off the wall complaints and I would be told "you are fine, blah blah, quit worrying, slow down you are getting older lol" Even when I went almost blind, my current doctor would not believe something wrong....of course she got "fired" lol. I went almost 10 years of complaining etc with diabetes before it was confirmed by me having a blood sugar of over 1,000 and almost blind..If it is in control and humans can do so with diet and exercise in the beginning sometimes it is hard to know if you don't experience normal symptoms. But this disease can progress and now I must take meds. You need to interview your vet, per say, ask them how much experience they have had with canine diabetes, ask them how they feel about home monitoring, amazing how many vets don't like a patient to do this for the dogs...but it is very important, it helps you to make good decisions about diets, insulin adjustments etc. Yes many of us trusts our vets but sometimes we need to take charge and find one who does know...I had to finally do that for one of my gals who has severe allergies, etc and before I let the newest doctor even touch her, I asked questions upon questions and it was a good fit. I wish I could have known sooner but in the end it worked out. The link above will take you to the home page and if you look on the front you will see boards that cover the various diets, and even recipes submitted by some. I don't think there is a better way or not as long as what you are feeding is healthy and not full of grains, etc. Yes they can acquire this over time, we have youngins here and some that did not get until later in life...Explore the sections, read our sections on our pets etc...of course to us they are our babies, and we would do what we have to to make them happy for the time they are with us. Do keep Nickie in your heart, and know she would not want you not to share that love you have in the future with another when you are ready...You were a good mommie to Nickie...do know that...and do stay with us.. Last Edited By: mzizgayle 09/23/11 02:45 PM. Edited 1 time.
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mommytoNash		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 09/23/11 10:59 AM Administrator	Hi Ronda. Glad that the reading is helping. There is a whole section here on health. I don't know if you ended up here, just at the diabetes forum, or if you realize there are other sections. If you didn't realize there are sections, all you have to do is click on the words, Canine Support Group, that is in bold just above where it says My precious little Nickie. Then you'll see a list of the forums here. We've all been through a loss of an animal. My Nash is gone now, just a couple months ago. It wasn't the diabetes, it was cancer. Anyway, do stay, we hope you'll get some peace being among fellow dog lovers. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day Last Edited By: mommytoNash 09/23/11 08:32 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Johanna13		#8	[url]	[-]
Administrator Posts: 7346 09/23/11 03:08 PM Administrator & Owner	Hello Ronda. I know you feel horrible, but this truly was not your fault.. Normally when a dog has diabetes and the owners are not yet aware the dog gets very sick. The higher the BG goes the sicker the dog becomes. At a 900 BG level it is shocking to me that Nickie could even stand let alone chase a cat. At a high BG level dogs can't chase cats , they can't eat ...They cant walk ! You were not getting the sign's that would have alarmed you to the fact that something serious was happening. Actually your the first member to come to us that has had this happen so quickly with out the normal signs. I'm so sorry you both lost Nickie. its so sad because canine diabetes is controllable. But you cant control something you were not aware of. My sincere condolences..
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Kapuahone		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 451 09/23/11 11:28 PM	A routine bloodwork panel includes testing the blood sugar, which is how the vet can diagnose diabetes. If Nickie had bloodwork done and the blood sugar was in the normal range at the time of testing they wouldn't have known that she had diabetes. Since she was so young she probably was born with it. I have a 2 and a half year old Min Pin mix who was diagnosed at 5 months of age. It is extremely rare for dogs to be born with diabetes, usually it develops when they're older. It's very odd that your dog didn't have symptoms. My little girl was super super skinny even though she was ravenous, and she was drinking and peeing a ton. I work at an animal hospital and she was surrendered to us, and we diagnosed her. It took a good six months to get her sugars fairly consistent and under control. A lot of experimenting with insulin doses and different foods. Now she is on 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 units of NPH and eats grain-free EVO dry and low glycemic Merrick canned. Her numbers are pretty good now, but she still goes through phases when she needs a little more or less insulin. I'm so sorry you lost your little one, I can't even imagine losing my Jerry. She is my life! And like others have said, you shouldn't feel guilty at all, you did the best you could with her and I'm sure she knew that. Last Edited By: Kapuahone 09/23/11 11:30 PM. Edited 1 time.
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mzizgayle		#10	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/24/11 06:51 AM	One thing to know Rhonda, your blood glucose changes constantly, even your own does...food of course can change it, even female hormones, being sick, stress is another factor...so even if Nickie had blood work before at that time she could have had normal ranges at that time. The liver produces the sugar and the pancreas releases the insulin into the body to process this, but for what ever reason the two organs were not working in sync with each other when it comes to diabetes.
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rkwhite		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 09/24/11 01:02 PM	I can't thank you ladies enough for all of the information!!! This is helping myself and my husband more then you know!! Thank-you!! It is just so crazy how this all happened. I guess I will never know all the whys and hows what I have learned here has given me hope! We loved Nickie so much and will miss her terribly. To us she wasn't a dog she was our baby. What she gave us in the short time we had her is unmeasureable! What a joy she was! Please keep the info coming!
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Brandy mom		#12	[url]	[-]
Administrator Moderator Posts: 3887 09/24/11 08:14 PM	Sorry you lost your Nickie. Many dogs are diagnosed with diabetes after they go blind. Dogs can develop diabetic cataracts and this causes them to go blind. My vet told me that many of his diabetic dogs come because they are blind and no other signs. So it not something you would look for. Brandy lost a lot of weight and I thought it was from the new lite food. It wasn't until she started to drink tons of water that I knew something else was wrong. Her first visit to the vet her blood sugar was almost 800 and she was still running around. Until Brandy I never knew dogs could get diabetes. Dawn
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amydunn19.petswithdiabetes		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 124 09/24/11 09:40 PM	I am so sorry to hear about sweet Nickie! How very sad! I have an 11 yr old diabetic Jack Russell terrorist, Maggie and a 4 yr old not-diabetic mini schnauzer named Mya. Both of my girls are rescues from bad situations. Maggie has been diagnosed for 3 years now and she has been a challenge to get where we are today. It took me forever to realize my vet had no clue and almost killed Maggie in the process until I found this site and found a good vet. Don't beat yourselves up or your vet - if she wasn't showing symptoms, you couldn't have known. The one thing I will say and I wish I could tell all dog owners who have dogs with allergies is to leave the prednisone and the temaril p alone. I had no idea that there was a strong connection between those drugs and dogs developing diabetes until ,of course, it was too late. Maggie is allergic to 63 out of 64 environmental allergens(according to her last test) so we have fought this battle forever and all they did when she was young was give steroids. The vets will never admit that these drugs cause diabetes but most won't deny it either. Also, Maggie had a pancreatitis attack when she was barely a year old after she was bitten by a copperhead snake twice.(the first bite just made her mad so she attacked the snake and it bit her again) She almost died during that ordeal but I always wonder if that damaged her pancreas and contributed to the development of diabetes. I may never know but I have spent alot of time blaming myself for it all when it was truly beyond my control. Nickie knew you loved her so much - I hope you can have comfort in that. Know that she is not in pain or suffering and probably chasing squirrels with all of the other schnauzers who have crossed the bridge.
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mzizgayle		#14	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/25/11 08:33 AM	Amy, I didn't realize that about the prednesone until I was over in a human support group and a couple of members there had diabetes as a result of high uses of prednesone...and Prissy was put on this everytime when her "skin condition" was flairing up, when I changed vets and found out she was loaded with allergies also (but not to fleas lol) I had him do her blood glucose and at that time she was fine so now either I check once in a while or have him do it since she likes him better ROFL
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sissysmommy.petswithdiabetes		#15	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 1494 09/26/11 07:15 AM	Hi Ronda - my name is Jerri, and my husband and I were away for the weekend. I will be back later after I "catch up" with everything! This is just a quick fly-by, but I wanted to tell you how sorry I am about your precious Nickie. Sissy, a 15 1/2 year old lhasa apso left for the Rainbow Bridge on February 28, 2009. She was diagnosed on September 21, 2007. You can run and your eyes are clear, my girl. On March 8, 2009, we adopted Fritz, a Bichon Frise puppy. He is a rescue dog with a beautiful spirit.
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rkwhite		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 09/26/11 09:24 AM	Can a one time script for steroids cause the diabetes? Nickie was on it once for a cough she had. My husband and I are doing better but I am just really having a hard time. I keep playing the events from that day and a half over and over in my head! I feel horrible that I had no idea. It's like one of your children. I know in my head I had no control but it just hurts. I love this website!!! I am learning so much! My husband and I at some point would like another dog but I need more time. I do have questions regarding feeding a future pet,is it better to cook food for them or are store bought sufficiant? I am all freaked out over what I will be feeding it. Nickie was on Science Diet and I would mix a teaspoon of wet food with it. What about dog treats? Like the milkbone treats? Rawhide chews? Jerky treats?
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mzizgayle		#17	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 09/26/11 10:53 AM	Not sure actually, do know with humans there is no safe dose, over time it can increase the risk for heart disease, osteroporosis, infection and can worsen underlying diabetes. Now this makes it sound as if the gene to get diabetes needs to be there to cause it to come out, but if you listen to some of the humans, then they say it was the cause of theirs, so either way use if no other drug is there. It does hurt, and yes a person can feel horrible for not knowing...I knew something was wrong with me, but could not place my finger on it, so I never did the denial stage that humans do...I just was relived that I was not crazy, tho I then got royally pissed at the doctors for not listening to me. Get another fur baby when you are both ready. you will know when you look into those sweet puppy dog eyes lol Our dogs of course are on special diets for allergies with the cocker, and the other,(she's my heart) had a serious weight problem so she was really controlled and we finally got her to lose enough to make the vet and us very happy and of course her, also, I would assume. Of course if she could talk, she'd say mommy was mean and starved her and make her walk more and wouldn't give her treats. Mine never got the rawhide chews since my vet said the rawhide pieces could swell up in their stomach causing problems. mine did get the milkbone and they really love the 'sweet potato fries" for dogs (it is freeze dried) Prissy will get some peanut butter when I have a pill and she just begs for that. Of course now CeeCee thinks greenbeans are a treat and we just don't tell her differently. Any treats they did get we usually broke in half, they don't care of the amount, just the thought they talked mommy and daddy out of one. and as I say do not allow this to rent your mind for free, it is not worth it. Just keep her alive in your hearts (and we luv ya also)
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Jody921		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3852 09/26/11 02:30 PM Administrator	Hi Rhonda! I am so sorry to hear about what happened to your little Nickie. You had no way of knowing what was going on. It sounds like Nickie had a wonderful life with you even though it was cut short. Nickie knew that she was loved. When the time is right and your heart has healed just a tiny bit, yes get another dog to love. Good homes are needed by so many dogs and cats. You and hubby sound like wonderful fur-parents. There is alot of good informative stuff to learn on this message board. Plus, you will get lots of support. We've all got a common bond and that is our love for animals. You fit it just fine. Where did you get Nickie?
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not2foxie		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 571 09/28/11 01:53 PM	I am so sorry Ronda. I know it's very very hard to lose a pet. I've lost several and i know it's one of the worse things that will ever happen to you. I know also that one of the best ways to take your mind off of it is to get another one as soon as you feel up to it. They can work miracles in easing the mind..
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sissysmommy.petswithdiabetes		#20	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 1494 09/28/11 06:08 PM	Hi Ronda - I'm back. I don't believe that dogs are born with diabetes, but some breeds seem to be more susceptible to it. Unfortunately, Schnauzers are one of them. Shortly after my diabetic lhasa apso died, we adopted a bichon puppy. Of course, now I know that they are prone to diabetes. too. So I watch Fritz's diet very carefully. It's possible that Nickie did have some symptoms, but you may not have recognized them. Also, if she developed pancreatitis, that is almost a certainty that diabetes will follow since the pancreas produces insulin. Diabetic dogs are fed a diet of protein and complex carbs. Very little if any fat. There are some companies that make food for diabetic dogs. Some choose to feed whatever their dog will eat and adjust the insulin to that food. Some also home cook for their dogs. There is no right or wrong food - just how it interacts with the insulin. It sounds like your vet did the correct things for pancreatitis. With her BS that high, she probably went into a diabetic coma. If so, there was no pain. Blood sugar is checked with routine bloodwork, but she may not have been showing any signs of it the last time a panel was done. Like Nickie, some dogs become diabetic overnight. Sometimes, it does come on over time. With my Sissy, I didn't realize it, but she was on a fast track to diabetes. She took steroids for allergies for YEARS. I didn't know that this can cause diabetes. Vets never told me. Also, she developed pancreatitis about a year before she was diagnosed. Again, no one told me she was a candidate for diabetes. She was 13 when she was diagnosed and the changes before insulin were readily apparent. I had just lost a dog to kidney disease and the symptoms are similar. She lived almost another 3 years with diabetes, allergies, blindness, deafness and dementia. Diabetes didn't kill her - she had a stroke and lost most of her functions. I can truly say that I learned volumes from the diabetes experience. Vets learn to treat many diseases. We only have to know one. I took a lot of the stuff I learned here and took it to my vet. Many times, he would say "What do you think we should do?" I also believe that every experience you have is in preparation for something else. Diabetes no longer scares me - it is a way of life for many humans and dogs. My Fritz - the bichon - is now 3 years old and has had to have 2 steroid shots in the last years. I am hoping that this doesn't cause him to be diabetic down the road, but who knows the future? My advice is to get another dog as soon as you are ready. (We couldn't stand an empty house, so we got Fritz one week after Sissy left us.) Put diabetes at the back of your mind, remember the good times with Nickie, and treasure every moment with your new furbaby. I hope between all of us, we have answered your questions. Sissy, a 15 1/2 year old lhasa apso left for the Rainbow Bridge on February 28, 2009. She was diagnosed on September 21, 2007. You can run and your eyes are clear, my girl. On March 8, 2009, we adopted Fritz, a Bichon Frise puppy. He is a rescue dog with a beautiful spirit.
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My precious little Nickie.

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