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Scotsrish	Hello everyone		Lead	[-]
Posts: 22 08/20/11 11:57 AM	Tags : None I am thrilled to find this site, there seems to be a great deal of information for the human diabetic but info is scarce for the pet. I have three dogs and all are rescues. Rascal is 11 years old and I have had him since 6 months. A few years ago he developed pancreatitis, almost died but thanks to a wonderful vet he survived. 9months ago he was diagnosed with diabetes, pretty much inevitable having had the issues with the pancreas. Mine and my husbands first thoughts were how the heck can we do this as both of us get sick at the site of a needle. It was not easy but it had to be done, when I think of how much I shook in the begining I am amazed Rascal doesn't run from me. Long story short he is on Caninsulin twice a day 12 units and he is 33lbs. I had to add chromium 100mcg to his diet as he was not absorbing the insulin in the beginning. The chromium solved the problem for a while and he had been reduced from 14 units to the 12 units. He had a bladder infection which was also inevitable and I am finally able to check his glucose with a glucometer. I needed to know where he stands with the diabetes and $160 a day each time at the vets for a glucose curve was getting ridiculous. Rascal's glucose curve is high and the vet is considering changing him to human insulin called Levemir, Detemir insulin as it has less peaks. I am worried about this and have tried to get info from Novo Nordisk both from the main office here in Canada and the main office in Denmark and I get nothing! no advice, suggestions not even common courtesy. Caninsulin office (which is the same as Vetsulin) did help me and even connected me to one of their doctors BUT! apparently the Caninsulin is hard to regulate. Not sure why it is being discontinued in the states but they sell it here in BC. Has anyone switched to Detemir from Vetsulin/Caninsulin ?
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Johanna13		#1	[url]	[-]
Administrator Posts: 7346 08/20/11 01:01 PM Administrator & Owner	Hello & Welcome. We have had a couple members try Levimir with mixed results. Most of us here use or have used human insulin but it's the NPH Walmart brand Relion 12 hour duration - $25 a vial I am sure others will add their responses shortly. Last Edited By: Jody921 08/20/11 03:26 PM. Edited 2 times.
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Jody921		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3852 08/20/11 03:34 PM Administrator	Welcome to CSG! I have just a quick sec. On my way out...but please know that you and hubby are so normal. Giving my dog an injection was MAJOR for me also. But, I did it for 6 years and I never fainted once! My doggie was on humulin NPH, purchased at Walmart for $25 a vial, and their syringes, U100 were 31 gauge (very slim needles) and were $14 for a box of 100. Very reasonable. I purchased my glucometer at Walgreens, and bought my test strips online (ebay). Just about everyone on here uses NPH. Yes caninsulin is very unpredictable and many owners have switched over to NPH. A schedule is every important. No free feeding. Just fed and shot every 12 hrs., how are his numbers (glucose?). Again - welcome! Looking forward to hearing more from you. Lots of helpers on here. (weekend...so some are busy!)
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mzizgayle		#3	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 08/21/11 07:36 AM	Welcome to the group...I am Gayle the human diabetic, yes this is a great site for helping the doggies. Sounds like you dove right in and got over your fear of the needles (I was a big baby when I first had to test myself lol) diet and a schedule is very important to control, watching snacks if you give them are very important to know what to give, what does Rascal eat? does he like veggies such as green beans lol...my doggies are special needs but do not have diabetes but they have learned green beans make good "cookies" Glad you are home monitoring his blood gloucose...maybe you can post a sample curve you have gotten so the gals will be able to help assist you further. did you get your meter calibrated at the vets? - you test and then the vet tests to see the difference in the numbers so you can adjust that way....say you got 250, vet got 300, then you know your human meter is 50 off from the vets...meters are used as a guideline so don't worry if there is that much of a difference,
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Scotsrish		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 08/21/11 12:25 PM	Thanks everyone for replying I am not sure about the NPH-Relion but I will check into it. I live in Canada, Vancouver Island BC so products and measurements are a little different. Rascal's glucose curve is taken in mml instead of mg. An example was Aug. 16 and he was still on the antibiotics for the bladder infection but the readings were; 7:30 am before food, shot and antibiotic 11.2 mml.( 202) I gave him food, shot 12units and antibiotic after reading. 9:45 am 19.1 mml (344) and I gave him chromium 100 mcg and nibble of meat to hide it. 1:00 pm 14.5 mml (260) 5:30 pm 13.7mml (247) gave him his supper after reading 8:30 pm 23.6 mml (425) gave him 12 units after reading I feed Rascal slim and fit by Acana (Canadian made) as it has the highest fiber content The vet has asked me to decrease his am insulin to 10units which I have started and he is no longer on the antibiotics which could have raised his glucose level. Because of the change the vet said don't bother with a curve for a few days. As for getting Rascal to eat veggies the only veggie he likes is avocado LOL and it has high fat so he doesn't get it. Last Edited By: Scotsrish 08/22/11 11:40 PM. Edited 2 times.
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Glenda 12		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 301 08/21/11 02:42 PM	Welcome, I live in MB and actually our vet was considering Levemir as well, but decided that she wasn't totally comfortable with it. We have a 9 1/2 yo rottie who was dx January this year. We tried him on the Caninsulin first off with not much luck. Our vet opted to try him on a fast acting along with the NPH. I will not say he's regulated...as he still throws us a curve ball every once in a while, but he's doing much, much better. That being said, a friend of mine who goes to a naturopathic vet (Buddy had also seen her when we first moved to Wpg) and this vet has a Rottie that is regulated on the levemir. Lots of trial and errors....each dog is so, so different. Right now, I think we found Buddy's correct doses....he's at 32 NPH and depending on where he's at at meal time, usually 3 or 4 of the R. He is presently 82.6 lbs, so trying to get some weight back on him, getting 3 cups food 2x, along w/chromium, vit C & B6....oh can't forget his brocolli!! Buddy's food is the Royal Canin Gastrol Intestinal high fibre (prescription, but he likes it!!) $102 for a 33 lb from the vet. Glenda,Buddy,Tae,TJ & Smokey precious furangels Reiko (2004-11-18),Tecah (2006-02-02) & Mouzer (2004-08-24) "Paw prints and nose smudges on glass doors and windows break up glare and soften the light in a room"
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mzizgayle		#6	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 08/21/11 04:05 PM	Just take your readings and multiply by 18 to convert to ours or divide ours to get yours. Rascal sounds like my Prissy, very picky about her food, I started with mushing up the greens beans little at a time and mixing in her food, did this for a couple of days, then increased the pieces, until now she will eat them in her food. when she had to go on allergy safe food, now that was fun...I tried every trick in the book to get her to eat but finally found the right combination and got her to eat...my other gal will gulp something down and then ask what was that lol. Also discovered by accident they like zucchinni, raw, maybe try that
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Scotsrish		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 08/22/11 12:16 AM	Hi Glenda is there any way I could get the vets name in Winnipeg the one that has her Rotti on Levemir? As it turns out our vet Dr Lexus is a standard vet plus an alternative vet who is a Naturopath and does acupuncture. She wanted me to try corn silk and a Chinese herb which I can't pronounce let alone spell to help Rascal with his insulin. She is the one trying to get more info and reviews on the Levemir/Detemir. What kind of problems did Buddy have with the Caninsulin? I might be paranoid but I worry about products just made for animals such as the Caninsulin/Vetsulin as in how well they are regulated plus just the fact that they can no longer sell it in the States due to problems with the ingredients and contamination and yet it is being sold in Canada. Hi Gayle I wish I could say that Rascal is a picky eater but he is actually our four legged garbage can. He is a reserve rescue and never quite got out of that survival mode, hence he will eat anything but raw veggies. Rascal will eat cooked veggies mixed with meat but not raw. He just looks at me like I'm nuts if I try to give him apple or a raw veggie. I have read that to switch from Caninsulin/Vetsulin to a human insulin the dosage is divided by four as in way less of the human insulin due to the difference in the ratio of ingredients. The syringes are also different in measurement as I compared them hoping to save some money $60.00 at the vets for a box of 100 40iu Caninsulin needles. The Caninsulin ranges from $35-$55 for a 10ml vial depending on the vet office. Thanks for the help
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mzizgayle		#8	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3053 08/22/11 11:39 AM	LOL cooked veggies are good, would he eat a cooked green bean without the meat? the insulin part will have to be answered by the other gals, I take pills so not sure, but if you have a walmart near by then you can obtain it cheaper.
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mommytoNash		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 08/22/11 05:12 PM Administrator	Hi! So sorry I haven't responded, was away for a few days. I'm Cindy. You are right about the difference between Caninsulin and NPH. NPH is much more concentrated, so it's measurement is differently. If you lay a syringe for each of them side by side, the mark of units will be in the same spots on each, BUT' it'd the circumference that is different. The Caninsulin syringe Is bigger around. If expenses are an issue, you will find buying the NPH Humulin (manufactured by Eli Lilly), Relion/Walmart brand a pleasant surprise with the vial of insulin running around $25 (U.S.) and the syringes around $14 a box of 100. Did the Vet mention that once a vial of insulin is pierced, it shouldnt be used past 30 days? Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day Last Edited By: mommytoNash 08/22/11 05:14 PM. Edited 1 time.
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Scotsrish		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 08/23/11 12:31 AM	Hi Cindy, the vet did mention that she thinks the Caninsulin is only good for 20 days but I phoned the company and their vet said 6 weeks or more if it is refrigerated apparently it isn't necessary to refrigerate it. Much different I suspect with the NPH Humulin or Relion. That would have been a problem with the Levemir as here in BC it only comes in 3ml pens and you have to buy 5 at a time approximately $140. The cost of the insulin is not so much of a worry as the vet bills. It was nearly $1500.00 just to get Rascal diagnosed at another vet office even though I said I am pretty sure he has diabetes and usually another $300 each time we go in. I am sure many of you know what its like especially when you have more than one (kid) who needs surgery, meds and vet care. The NPH does sound more reasonable although the Canadian prices are always quite a bit higher than the States the good part would be to be able to get it from the pharmacy. What size are the vials of NPH Humulin? Rasal is a mixed breed but does have Corgi in him, he is 11 years old and weighs 34 lbs. Tomorrow I should be hearing from the vet on what to do with Rascals high glucose levels. Does anyone else think his numbers are high?
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Jody921		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3852 08/23/11 06:13 AM Administrator	My dog was put on an insulin (many years ago), which was 'supposed to be' a 24 hr insulin. We went months trying to regulate her, many glucose curves and trips to the vet. kaching After finding message boards, knowledgeable owners, many knowing more than my vet - told me to change insulin. This KIND does not work. They were RIGHT! Your dog needs to be fed and given insulin every 12 hours. I would say that 90% of the dogs on these boards are all on humulin NPH. It is more predicable, and there can be bumps in the road along the way, but most dogs do well on it. Maybe you could ask your vet when you speak to them today, if this could be tried. I went into my vet, and asked him. Right away, he said "sure we can try it." I never looked back at the other insulin, as the NPH did it's job. We all understand the cost factor. Been there, done that. This is why we encourage others to head to Walmart or Sams for their supplies. If you do not have these close to you, then call around to different pharmacies. The same with the glucometer and test strips. We will help you! Last Edited By: Jody921 08/23/11 06:15 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Glenda 12		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 301 08/23/11 07:22 AM	I will send you a message with Dr. Stogdale's info. Buddy seemed to start off well on Caninsulin, but then it seems it didn't work. However, Reiko our sibe that was diabetic did great on it. I have to go back and read all your posts when I have more time... are you not on a 12 hr feeding schedule? Oh and just for your info, the insulin, test strips are way more expensive in the US that for us. The cheapest I've found is Costco for the test strips...$75 for a box of 102 (Accucheck) $85 in Safeway....$100 plus in Grand Forks. We pay $22 - $23 for the insulin. Glenda,Buddy,Tae,TJ & Smokey precious furangels Reiko (2004-11-18),Tecah (2006-02-02) & Mouzer (2004-08-24) "Paw prints and nose smudges on glass doors and windows break up glare and soften the light in a room"
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mommytoNash		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 08/23/11 02:36 PM Administrator	So Glenda, are you saying my prices in Michigan are higher? We pay $23-25 for insulin. $13-15 for syringes....but of course this is just for the Relion brand. Most of the folks here buy their test strips on EBay. Always have to check the expiration date. When I first started testing I used a Relion Meter and strips as they were the cheapest. I hooe you don't mind, but I am going to move this topic to the diabetic section later today. That way more people will see it and give you their thoughts too. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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Glenda 12		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 301 08/23/11 06:59 PM	No Cindy your prices are good. Insulin is about the same; however our syringes are $33 for a box of 100. The accucheck strips are $75 at Costco, that is the cheapest I've found. What I found with Ebay was by the time you pay for shipping, it's more expensive. And our Walmart, funny enough I found to be the most expensive. Now when I said stuff was more in the US, when we were in ND I checked both Fargo & Grand Forks and it was considerably higher. Who knows....I had a tiff yesterday with the pharmacist at Safeway because she charged me tax on the insulin because it was not for human use. And because we don't need a rx for it, next time, I'm just going to say it's for myself. The hell with them!! Glenda,Buddy,Tae,TJ & Smokey precious furangels Reiko (2004-11-18),Tecah (2006-02-02) & Mouzer (2004-08-24) "Paw prints and nose smudges on glass doors and windows break up glare and soften the light in a room"
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mommytoNash		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 08/23/11 07:05 PM Administrator	Oh good grief, how silly is that!? Tax because it's not for a human. I just don't understand why the syringes are higher but the insulin isn't. I would think that Walmart would want to keep things pretty much the same. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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sissysmommy.petswithdiabetes		#16	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 1494 08/23/11 08:42 PM	Hi - I'm Jerri, and my diabetic girl, Sissy, left about 2 1/2 years ago. Yes, his numbers are high, but it takes 4 or 5 days for any insulin adjustment to settle in. You can learn to take the blood glucose curves at home. If you need incentive, just remember it is $300 at the vet and it will only cost you for the meter and strips. It will be a huge savings. I can't help you with the other insulins. Sissy was on Vetsulin the entire time. I decided not to switch her to NPH because it seemed to work for her. She was over 15 years old, and I didn't want to rock the boat. Sometimes the advice that we give doesn't exactly match what your vet might say. We have years and years of practical hands on experience here. Needles aren't so bad, are they? Sissy, a 15 1/2 year old lhasa apso left for the Rainbow Bridge on February 28, 2009. She was diagnosed on September 21, 2007. You can run and your eyes are clear, my girl. On March 8, 2009, we adopted Fritz, a Bichon Frise puppy. He is a rescue dog with a beautiful spirit.
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Scotsrish		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 22 08/24/11 11:09 PM	Thanks again everyone...finally talked with the vet today and basically she also talked with the same Dr at Caninsulin but neither seemed to know where to go just take more curves and maybe increase the insulin. I brought up the Humulin NPH again and told her that I am connected with this forum and there are many, many people using this for their dogs. She said I would have suggested it but I tried to prescribe it a couple of years back and it has been discontinued here. I said no there are people in Canada using it. Well long story short I phoned around found it at Walmart, Superstore and Costco can order it in. Rascal starts tomorrow morn with 6 units BID. Gees I pray he does well on it. Question? in regards to food and shot every 12 hours. I usually feed Rascal and give him his shot around 8am then give him dinner at 5-530 and another shot at 8-830. Is everyone else feeding for example at 8am then at 8pm to match the shots?
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Glenda 12		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 301 08/25/11 07:01 AM	Did you get my message I sent to your inbox? Remember also that you need to get U-100 needles for the Humulin as it is different than the Caninsulin which is a U-40. Keep us posted on the progress. Are you also doing the home testing? Glenda,Buddy,Tae,TJ & Smokey precious furangels Reiko (2004-11-18),Tecah (2006-02-02) & Mouzer (2004-08-24) "Paw prints and nose smudges on glass doors and windows break up glare and soften the light in a room"
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Brandy mom		#19	[url]	[-]
Administrator Moderator Posts: 3887 08/25/11 07:02 AM	You need to give the shot right after the meal. The food is going to get ahead of the insulin so the longer you wait the higher the BG will go. NPH insulin last about 12 hours in most dogs so you will get an over lap of insulin. If Rascal can't wait the full twelve hours try to give him a few veggies. Green beans or yellow squash work well. Dawn
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mommytoNash		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10009 08/25/11 07:12 AM Administrator	I agree with Dawn, you really need to not have overlap with the insulin. So, if you have to push his first food and insulin up tom say 7 am, and then you can do 7 pm or even 6:30 Also, I hope you did get the new syringes, otherwise you'll have to do a conversion. ALSO, Walmart has the cheapest price on the Humulin! But you must ask for the Relion brand. Everyone else will be higher, I remember pricing out the others and most were almost twice as high. The Humulin is more concentrated and so the syringes are smaller in circumference, but when you lay it side by side with the ones you've used for Caninsulin they look the same. But please give the other syringes away or give to your Vet so you don't get them confused with the new ones or you'll have an issue on your hands (giving too much insulin). Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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