 permilan |
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Posts: 1 12/01/09 21:41:35 71.233.178.173 |
My miniature schnauzer, Gunther was diagnose - May 22, 2009. He weights 28 lbs, we are feeding him 1 1/2 c, Science Diet W/D dry, at 7 & 6
and is currently getting 8 units of Vetsulin 2x day after each meal. I purchased an I-Pet glucose monitor ($59), right after he was diagnosed.
but did not have any success in testing him. My vet at the time was not encouraging home testing. I have just recently changed vets due to the
former being unable to do a 12-hr curves (and the fact, that I learn that Vetsulin was no longer available thru my supplier, I knew it would be
needed). With the 1st meeting with the new vet we discussed the 12 hr curve and home testing. So I did my 1st at home curve on 11/27/09. I meet
with the vet today and brought my meter so we could compare my meter with the vets. The number variance was 150+. I now feel the meter I have is
worthless. And am trying to figure at what meter to try now. Also I would like to know whether I should be doing urine testing as well.
In general, Gunther is doing well. He does not have any other medical problems, his eyesight is good. The food does tend to give him gas, (which he does not care for). And as for the Vetsulin, my vet does not seem to worry about moving him off at this point. They stock up when they were notified of the product alert.
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Welcome Permilan...
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 Johanna13 |
Welcome Permilan... |
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Posts: 7207 (12/01/09 10:10 PM) Administrator |
Last Edited By: Johanna13 01/16/10 03:23 PM.
Edited 1 time.
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (12/01/09 10:22 PM) Administrator |
As said in your original post.... WELCOME...
As for the Vetsulin.. Some dogs do great on it, some don't... Most here have switched to Novelin N... human insulin... The human insulin has one peek time ... Vetsulin has two.... We also felt we had better results in regulating our dogs on the human insulin... Also Wall Mart has Novelin N with the ( ReliOn ) label for $21.00 a bottle and almost 3x the amount of insulin as you would get with the Vetsulin... Also the ReliOn syringes are only $12.99 a box of 100.... so If you should ever want to make the switch... We can help you with that... As for Home testing... I think it is the most important tool you can have... We also will help you through that also... You can do it !!! As for as your meter... I have not heard of that one.. But I also know it must be calibrated by the lab... Not against another meter.. Welcome to our group... Together we will help you to do all you need to do to keep Gunther as healthy and happy as possible...
Last Edited By: Johanna13
12/01/09 10:28 PM.
Edited 4 times.
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 debbuna |
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Posts: 2101 (12/01/09 11:03 PM) |
A great big welcome to you and Gunther!!! We have alot of people here who can help you and Johanna is off to a good start recommending the switch to human
insulin. It will save tons of money in the long run and like she said, it only has one peak as opposed to Vetsulin's two. I'm not sure about the
Vetsulin being discontinued but I think we heard that from another new member. Let us know if you would like to do that and we can help you do the switch.
Home testing is invaluable too. It sounds like your doing very well by Gunther. Did you new vet compare your meter to his meter or to his lab results.
Meter to meter comparisons are not good, it must be from an accurate lab reading. It's good that Gunther still has good vision- you must have caught the
diabetes very early and did something right to treat him. My Lucy went blind very fast, only 2 months after diagnosis, which can happen, but not all dogs do
go blind. Hopefully Gunther will be one of those.
Can you post the results of your curve done on the 29th? We are sticklers for numbers here and like to see exactly what's going on hour by hour. That would help alot. Again, welcome to our group!!!!  and my Lucy, American Pugsley, age 15 -born 4/18/1996, DX. diabetic Nov. 07, blind 2/08, Weight 11 lbs., Humulin N 7 U , Homecooked chicken/white rice with canned Hills W/D My sweet, baby Lucy left me peacefully on October, 24, 2011 with her head on my shoulder and my comforting whispers in her poor little, deaf ear. I know she was met faithfully at the bridge by all her friends that went before her. Rest in peace, my baby. Lucy, 4/18/96-10/24/11 |
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Brandy mom |
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Posts: 3837 (12/01/09 11:05 PM) |
Hello and welcome
Glad you found us. I have not heard of that meter either. Do you have any information on the meter? I think if the meter is that off you should get a refund. wow 150 points is a lot and I have never heard of meter being off by that much. How did the vet compare the meter? This has me concered that they could sell a meter that is that far off. I would ask the vet what is the expiration date on the vetsulin. Insulin does expire and if the vet bought a large supply. Could you post your curve here? I love to look at curves this is how we learn about your pet. It tells us how they are using food and insulin. Dawn |
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angelsissy |
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Posts: 390 (12/02/09 01:21 PM)
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Hi and Welcome. It sounds like you are doing well with Gunther's diabetes so far. I have heard of the I-Pet meter, but am not familiar with it. I used a
human meter as many here do. Also, I am one of the few here who used Vetsulin the whole 18 months of Sissy's diabetes. It worked well for her, but most
people switch for several reasons. Please ask any questions you might have. There are also other foods that you can purchase from a good pet store that might
work for Gunther - yes, having excessive gas can be a real treat! I always thought it was the people who didn't like the gas - not the dog! If Gunther is
eating his food for you, that is great. If you have trouble getting him to eat, we also have some ideas for that.
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Carolyn98 |
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Posts: 3718 (12/02/09 03:50 PM)
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Hi and Welcome!
You found the right place that is for sure. You have received great advice so far, I`m very rusty now so I`ll leave it to the gals here that are still dealing with their babies. They are the greatest group of gals ever!!! I still have tips when the situation presents its self. You will do great and I`m so glad you found us!!
Carolyn & My Angel
Rorky, Pomeranian...Wt.15lbs...DOB..5/10/98...DX...4/5/06...Caninsulin..8u am...7u pm...MediCal(canned+dry) 1/4 can + 1/4 cup
q12hrs..loves fr.gr.beans,charlie bears,chicken jerky & medi treats. Rorky received his wings
July16/08.
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Ricksma |
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Posts: 193 (12/02/09 05:22 PM)
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Welcome to the group!! This is a great place for support and information. Ricky started on Vetsulin when he was first diagnosed over two years ago, and it
only took me a few weeks to realize that I didn't like the wild ups and downs we got with it...so, we changed to Novolin N, and we've never looked
back. It was a really easy switch, once I made the conversion from the U40 insulin to the U100 insulin with the conversion chart...and Ricky responded very
well to the Novolin. (AND it's cheaper!!) Hope you and Gunther will feel right at home here.
Ricky Ricardo Williams, 11# Chihuahua dx July 2007 dob Sept 2003 Humulin N 3 1/2 u 2xday, Humulin R 1/2 u 2xday Baked chicken, baby food green beans, baked
W/D patties (2) All the kisses he can get. |
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rhodesian46 |
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Posts: 1994 (12/02/09 06:24 PM) |
Just wanted to say welcome to you and Gunther. Sounds like you are doing great with him.
As Johanna said the Novolin NPH human insulin is way cheaper. You also get 2 1/2 times more insulin than in a bottle of vetsulin. But if you are going change don't use the vetsulin syringes unless you do a conversion. I used a One Touch ultra. human meter. It was off 30 points. That is the meter was less than the vets lab. 150 point is alot. I would call the manufacturer and complain. Maybe you can get your money back.  
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mommytoNash |
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Posts: 9789 (12/03/09 08:25 AM) Administrator |
I'm so sorry I missed this!! Welcome! Gunther sounds like a doll (and looks like one) other than the gas problem LOL!!! I don't have time to post much this morning, but will try to get on later and post more. Be thinking ahead......because if indeed Vetsulin is going off the market, you'll want to consider a change. Nash was on Vetsulin for about 15-17 months, before I made the change. I made the change due to Vetsulins increasing prices, and our needing to make budget changes. It worked wonderful, and I wonder now why I didn't do it sooner. I had no issues with the Vetsulin, but who wouldn't want to go from spending almost $80 a month on the Vetsulin alone, to spending $23!!! I should have changed, but I was nervous. I now know it was unfounded nervousness, and these gals are the ones that helped me with the change. Welcome, and looking forward to getting to know you better!!!
Cindy and Nash
Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day |
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permilan |
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Posts: 4 (12/15/09 08:38 PM)
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Sorry, I did not reply earlier. I read everyone's post but could not locate the blood curve numbers, so did not respond. On Nov 27 I did a curve an got 295, 413, 468, 381, 164 and then 558. with a few numbers I did not feel I received accurate results. I felt that maybe the blood samples may have been inefficient. That is what triggered me to bring the meter to vet, and I realize that the meter (compared to another meter the numbers would probably not match, but there is no way it should be 140 points different). so I schedule Gunther on the 8th for a curve at the vet. his numbers were never below 300. so we decided to stop the vetsulin all together and make the change to Novolin N (2 units twice a day). I am suppose to do a curve this weekend (it will be the 1st chance I get) I already know it is not enough, he is drinking more water and having accidents in the house.
My biggest frustration at this point is when I am trying to check his blood (I tried earlier this evening) is I am not get enough blood for the test. (I did go and by the ReliOn Meter from Wal-Mart) and I am trying to draw the blood from his ear.
Any suggestions? |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (12/15/09 11:07 PM) Administrator |
I'm glad to hear that your now using the Novelin N... You should see a improvement very soon...
How many units are you giving at each shot.. And can you tell us again what your feeding Gunther .and the amount?? This might help us to help you get those BG numbers down... As for the testing there is a few links on top of this diabetic forum that help with that.... Also There are many hear that have tested on the ear... I'm sure they will respond very soon... Glad you posted... We were wondering how you and Gunther were doing.. |
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mommytoNash |
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Posts: 9789 (12/15/09 11:28 PM) Administrator |
How many unit was Gunther on before when he was on the Vetsulin?
He is 29 lbs, and 2 units is literally nothing. Why did the Vet go so low. If he was at say 10 units, then starting him on the new insulin at say, 6 units (which is a 40% decrease) to start with was sufficient. If we know how many units he had been on we'd know where this was going. But 2 units seems really really low. Also, if you compare it to his food. My Nash is on 11 units, and he gets 1 cup of food twice a day and weighs about 30-32 lbs. Are you home during the day? Does Gunther have any warts, or callous that you can use for testing? When I use one of Nash's warts (sorry, that is what they are).....I squeeze a bit to make sure I get enough blood before I put the strip next to it. So glad to see you are back. Also, one more thing, are you testing Gunther at his 'fasting' to start, and then every 2 hours after, ending with his fasting just before the PM feed?
Cindy and Nash
Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day |
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debbuna |
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Moderator
Posts: 2101 (12/15/09 11:29 PM) |
Wow, welcome back. I'm glad you made the change to Novelin N although the dose is probably not what I would have started Gunther at. You will see in time
that the doses pretty much match up...I was using 7U of Vetsulin for Lucy and ended up with 6.5 U of Novelin N (she had lost weight which accounted for the
different dose). However Lucy is only 11-12 pounds in weight and Gunther is 28 pounds so even the 8 U of Vetsulin was probably not enough. It IS a good idea
to start a bit lower for the first dose but I would have started Gunther on 5-6 U, not 2. I'm not surprised he is drinking and peeing, he is definitely
running high. I would stick my neck out here and advise an increase in insulin..... could you run this by your vet? I'm afraid to leave Gunther at these
high Bgs. for very much longer as that alone can cause organ damage.
Are you checking his urine for ketones?? Any pharmacy will sell urine dipsticks called Keto-Diastix. It would be a good idea to get them and check his urine daily (although not the first pee of the day, wait till mid morning if you can). When the bg. is high for a while, ketones can be present in the urine- and this is not a good thing and would call for an emergency vet visit. Your vet should have told you about this and to watch for it. Ketoacidosis is a very serious condition requiring hospitalization in most cases. Jo, Gunther is eating Science Diet 1 1/2 C twice daily. As for the testing and getting a big enough bead of blood---- Are you holding a very warm washcloth on the ear for a few minutes before sticking him? This can help. Also a dab of vaseline on the spot will help the blood bead up and not smear before you can get the sample. If you continue having problems with the ear, there are other places you can use. The inner lip, the tail, the pad of the foot, any callous or wart things on his body anywhere. Let us know what he has and what you would like to try and we'll guide you. and my Lucy, American Pugsley, age 15 -born 4/18/1996, DX. diabetic Nov. 07, blind 2/08, Weight 11 lbs., Humulin N 7 U , Homecooked chicken/white rice with canned Hills W/D My sweet, baby Lucy left me peacefully on October, 24, 2011 with her head on my shoulder and my comforting whispers in her poor little, deaf ear. I know she was met faithfully at the bridge by all her friends that went before her. Rest in peace, my baby. Lucy, 4/18/96-10/24/11 |
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lindsay write |
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Posts: 292 (12/16/09 01:30 AM) Moderator |
Hi, and welcome! Sorry, I just found your thread now.
We also switched from Vetsulin to Humulin and it was the right choice for us. As far as getting blood from the ear, this can be difficult as you've already discovered! You need to find the vein and put the lancet directly into it. It's really hard to find so you'll need a flashlight - hold it behind Gunther's ear flap. It's the red line that runs along the edge of the flap. I tried to get blood from my dog's ear flap but it was really hard to do while holding a flashlight! Others have mentioned alternate areas. I ended up using my dog's elbow callous and also some warts. Those are those little skin thingies that often appear as a dog gets older. Let us know how you make out!
Jac, Ella (golden retriever, not diabetic), Abbey (golden retriever/Irish setter, not diabetic) beautiful Angel Jenny (golden
retriever), and cats Mona and Ernie.
Jenny passed away February 15, 2008 at almost 14 years old. Weight: 65 pounds. Diabetes, myasthenia gravis, hypothyroid. Started on Caninsulin (Vetsulin) for 3 months then switched to NPH - 13 units twice daily. . |
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mzizgayle |
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Moderator
Posts: 2957 (12/16/09 08:12 AM)
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Welcome, I also missed ya earlier, must be senior brain glitch lol...I am Gayle, the human diabetic of the group lol, so I guess I am like the consultant since
it is very similar and since the doggies can't talk I do...
Testing is important, otherwise you might run into problems adjusting the insulin, not knowing if you are getting highs or lows. Meters are all different (even meters of the same brand might give different #), so whatever meter you use, remember it is a guideline and do check against the doctor's reading. when I first got mine (I use the one touch ultra smart, because I like the extra things with it and I can download to the computer) the doctor tested me and then had me test, same spot to see how far off. (with humans testing on fingers or arms can give different readings) mine is pretty accurate. |
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permilan |
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Posts: 4 (12/16/09 03:52 PM)
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First off I want to thank all of you for your suggestions. I am currently waiting on the vet to give me a call back. And I do work during the day, but do have
every other Friday off. I originally had planned on doing a full 12 hr curve this Friday. But after the excess drinking & urination, I ran a few test last
night. Tried right when I fed him, but did not get any numbers until 9:37 pm which was 362; 11:40 pm - 495; 1:43 am - 486, and then again right before his 6:30
am - 385. I am hoping the vet calls back soon.
I haven't checked his urine. I certainly could, I ran home at lunch to let him out and he literally pee while I counted to 60. (This is when I found your response) So I will stop by CVS and pick up the urine sticks you mention. This is my 3rd vet, so we recently switch to (by referral) so she my have felt that was covered by our previous vet. My sister in-law sister's "Pahtner"(I always thought his name was Partner, but Pahtner is the New England way to say it) was diagnosed last April, and she was happy with them, and finally got Pahtner under control. So since my previous vet was unable to help with 12 hr curves and seem to think everything was fine, and when I found out the Vetsulin was no longer available from my supplier. I called up this vet and schedule the appointment. (They only take pet's by referral) and I like the fact that she is willing to work with me doing the BGs. Others (vets) that I had spoken to on the phone did not want to work (or even encourage) doing the at home testing. I think also, I come across as knowing more. I understand the diabetes; my sister was a juvenile diabetic. I know what she was suppose to do to take care of herself, but did not actually have to experience like Gayle. (We lost her in 1992, she was 32 and had spent 20 years as a diabetic). And it is very tuft when you can not ask your pet how they are feeling. Thanks again! |
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pug.petswithdiabetes |
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Posts: 2894 (12/16/09 04:04 PM) |
Just wanted to make sure that you changed syringes when you changed from the vetsulin to the Novolin. When your vet set the dose at 2Units, if you didn't
change syringes that would be equal to 5 Units of the Novolin. It would make more sense than going to 2 Units. Before we all assume that your vet did change
syringes, could you let us know?
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permilan |
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Posts: 4 (12/16/09 08:38 PM)
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I vet did concurred to move the units up to 4, and told my husband that I can retest on Sunday. oh yes, we did change the syringes as well, I had just
purchased three boxes worth from Hocks.com. I returned them today.
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debbuna |
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Moderator
Posts: 2101 (01/16/10 11:56 AM) |
I'm wondering if Gunther's mom is still around and how he is doing since the switch to Novelin N.?????
and my Lucy, American Pugsley, age 15 -born 4/18/1996, DX. diabetic Nov. 07, blind 2/08, Weight 11 lbs., Humulin N 7 U , Homecooked chicken/white rice with canned Hills W/D My sweet, baby Lucy left me peacefully on October, 24, 2011 with her head on my shoulder and my comforting whispers in her poor little, deaf ear. I know she was met faithfully at the bridge by all her friends that went before her. Rest in peace, my baby. Lucy, 4/18/96-10/24/11 |
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- Instructions: How to use the features on C.S.G
- Introduce Yourself
- Checking In
- Warnings & Recalls
- Canine Diabetes
- Our Journal
- Canine Diabetic Diets
- Diabetic Links & Information
- Our Life With Canine Diabetes
- Dr. Christopher Lee DVM CVLS
- Pet Updates & Pet Issues
- Canine Health Help Forum.
- Canine Health Information
- Animal Behavior
- Canine Diets & Information ( Non Diabetic)
- Pet Supplies to Share
- Hero Dogs & Rescues
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You will find a large source of experienced people amongst our membership ,but please consult with your veterinarian regarding any information you read on our forums. Our personal experiences, advice, and suggestions are personal opinions and not a substitute for proper veterinary care. Please seek your veterinarian's advice on any issue relating to your pet's health.
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