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bwalters4	newly diagnosed		Lead	[-]
Posts: 23 11/20/09 02:42 AM	Tags : None Dog's Name: Shasta How long has your dog been Diabetic? I just found out today How much does your dog weigh? 69 (Vet said she should lose 10 pounds) How much insulin are you using? 8 units What type of insulin are you using? Humulin N What times are you giving insulin? 6:30 AM and 6:30 PM What are you feeding your dog? 1 cup same time as above, Purina DCO (again been on it for one day) Before that she was on Science Diet Senior. What type of dog do you have? Border Collie Mix. I rescued her through Seattle Purebred Rescue Do you home test? I tried only once and she fought me and that is one of the reasons I ended up here, seeking advice. Background info. Well this has been a hard month. I lost my Powder Girl, Shasta's best friend, 2 1/2 weeks ago. She was 14. Now this. The first symptoms Shasta showed was an increased water intake over the last couple of weeks and leaving a sticky puddle where ever she was lying down. So my questions are: Where do you check your dogs blood? I watched a video of doing it on the gums but she freaked out when I tried it on Shasta I know quite a bit about diabetes since my son was diagnosed with Type 1 at age 2. He wears an insulin pump and uses Novolog. I understand the dangers, the symptoms, and what to watch out for.. and I am not willing to except that the best BG she will get is 200 (from the Vet) and that I shouldn't attempt to home test (from the vet) Thanks for your help Barbara How long has your dog been Diabetic-------11/20/09 How much does your dog weigh?--------69lbs How much insulin are you using?---------8 units What type of insulin are you using?------Humulin N What times are you giving insulin?------6:30 AM and 6:30 PM What are you feeding your dog?----- 1 cup same time as above, Purina DCO (again been on it for one day) Before that she was on Science Diet Senior. How often and how much are you feeding?-----same as above What type of dog do you have?-----------Border Collie Mix. Do you home test?--------------- Not Yet. Last Edited By: Johanna13 01/16/10 12:28 AM. Edited 1 time.
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Jody921		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3846 11/20/09 10:10 AM Administrator	Welcome Barbara! Does your dog have any elbow callous'? Most of the bigger dogs have them. Taffy was 44 lbs and had just one. I pricked that one when I needed to test her. I just did it manually and squeezed - walla, nice drop of blood. Perfect for testing. Taffy did not life the whole mouth testing either! Wonderful that you are an experienced diabetes Mom. I bet you about flipped when you found out your dog was dx with it! Others will pop on here with suggestions. Sounds like you are doing well though. Check for callous! Here's hoping you luck out like I did!
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mommytoNash		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10004 11/20/09 10:37 AM Administrator	Hi Barbara, My name is Cindy and I have Nash. Thanks for sharing all the info on Shasta. I do have a few more questions. How old is Shasta? Is Shasta on any other medications? Has Shasta recently had pancreatitis, or been on steroids? When the Vet tested her, did they recommend bringing her in for a curve in a few days to see where her bg's are through out the day? Remember, for a dog, the bg's will be different than for a human. Most furmoms feel comfortable with bg's in the high 100's to mid 200's. With the Humulin (a lot of us use Relion Novelin N, Walmart's brand as it's a bit cheaper then Humulin through a regular pharmacy), it generally will peak at 6 hours posts feed/shot. YES, you CAN and will be able to test at home. Some have used the ears, some paws. My Nash is older and has some 'warts' that I use. Once he got use to it, it doesn't even feel it. I would never be able to do Nash's paws (he doesn't like anyone touching his paws LOL). Nash is pretty sedentary, so taking his blood isn't a big deal. But, I know Border Collie's generally are more active. So, it may require you to have some help at first. I'll let the other folks chime in. But, home testing is the best. I didn't test till I had a crisis, and wish I had tested much earlier. So, good for you!! Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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angelsissy		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 390 11/20/09 10:42 AM	Cindy is right - 200 is a pretty good reading. 180 is the line - after that there could be some spilling into the urine. If Shasa has a wart, you are all set. Sissy had a big wart on her back, and it worked great. There must not be any nerves in warts. Once, the vet said he could remove it for me, but I wouldn't let him. Where would I test? LOL It sounds like you have a good background in diabetes. You and Shasta will be fine.
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Johanna13		#4	[url]	[-]
Administrator Posts: 7339 11/20/09 10:58 AM Administrator & Owner	Hello Barbara... Welcome... Well I guess this has been a tough time for you.... Im sorry you lost your Powder Girl, So today You found out that Shasta is diabetic.. And good for you for jumping right on this to do the home testing.... I feel home testing is a MAJOR tool in canine diabetes.. We will walk you through this process until you have a spot on Shasta that you feel comfortable using to test her.. Welcome to our canine family...
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bwalters4		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 23 11/20/09 01:24 PM	Shasta does not have any warts or hard spots on her elbows... ugh. I wish she did. I tried her mouth again but as soon as I made the prick she fought me and then ran to my sister and hid... wow I felt like a heal. I have not tried her ears and she won't let anyone, let alone me, touch her paws. What about shaving an area on her body? I so desperately want to know what her bg is... Thank you all so much for your help. PS Has anyone used a Continuous Glucose Monitor on a dog??
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angelsissy		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 390 11/20/09 01:34 PM	Some people do shave a spot right above their tail. It might help to "practice." I know someone who tapped that area with a paper clip several times and then gave a small treat like a tine piece of chicken or a green been. Then she poked the area several times with the sharp point of the paper clip. Again with the treats. Do you use the pen device or just the lancet? That clicking sound makes some dogs nuts. Anyway, then she did the pen device against the skin and, you guessed it, treats. By the time she got to the actual lancet, all the dog wanted was it's treat and didn't notice the poke. You might want to warm the area first with a warm washcloth. The dab the area with Vasline - then rub it off. When you do get blood, the Vasoline helps keep it in a bead rather than running or getting in the dogs fur.
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mommytoNash		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10004 11/20/09 02:10 PM Administrator	I'm so sorry you're having trouble. Dang she doesn't have any spots! Well, as Jerri said, some will do the tail. And it will take some work. The treat thing has worked for many. I use the lancet, but I don't punch it so it clicks. I just remove the head and use it like a stick pin, hope that makes sense. The reason some use the ear is you can see the blood vessels easier, and make it quick. I know my Nash would NEVER let me do the inside of his mouth. He's a very calm and loving dog, but that would send him over the edge. Hopefully, you'll master this soon, as I know it's probably driving you crazy. But, there are several of us here who chickened out on testing for a LONG time, and still managed to treat our dogs diabetes effectively. So, we'll get you throught this even without the testing of the bg's. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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debbuna		#8	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 2167 11/20/09 02:48 PM	Welcome Barbara and Shasta! So you've found us very quickly and we're going to help you with this. Home testing is something that vets usually don't recommend, but most owners do it anyway and save tons of money and get great peace of mind. My Lucy is small so I can hold her on my lap and stick the "5th" pad of her back foot (the high up one). I know she doesn't like it and I was one who put it off for a while because I didn't want to upset her... but finally took control over something that had to be done-like it or not. I guess the inner lip is the most popular place to test and many have great success with it. Minus any callous or wart, I think your best bet may be the base of the tail. It would require shaving a small area though. Seriously though, could you even try to grab ahold of the back leg using your left arm to secure Shasta and try the upper pad of the back foot?? Most dogs find it hard to escape with the foot off the floor and in time they get used to it and fight less anyway. Worth a try. and my Lucy, American Pugsley, age 15 -born 4/18/1996, DX. diabetic Nov. 07, blind 2/08, Weight 11 lbs., Humulin N 7 U , Homecooked chicken/white rice with canned Hills W/D My sweet, baby Lucy left me peacefully on October, 24, 2011 with her head on my shoulder and my comforting whispers in her poor little, deaf ear. I know she was met faithfully at the bridge by all her friends that went before her. Rest in peace, my baby. Lucy, 4/18/96-10/24/11
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mommytoNash		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10004 11/20/09 04:38 PM Administrator	It was both Dee and I that hadn't tested at home because of difficulties, but necessity was the mother of invention and WE had to, so we finally did. Once I got it right, I wished I had started earlier, so you are way ahead of the game. It's nice to see where the bg's are since we can't ask them how they are feeling. Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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birdk.petswithdiabetes		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 11/20/09 05:16 PM	I use the base of the tail just a little down from where the tail meets the back area. Shave the area, the vaseline is great too but just thin layer. What kind of dog is Shasta? Mine is a mini schnauzer and he has the docked tail. I did the paer clip thing as described by Jerri for a day of two and also put my dog in the sink so he felt I had control. After the paper clip he got a treat and praise. When I actually stuck him he did not even care. (My first diabetic Bo was a biter and he hated the lip deal). I do not use the pen device just the lancet. If you have trouble with the small lancets , I got some at WalMart that are 29 or 30 gauge which is a little bigger than the 31 gauge. This way I get a larger better bead of blood. After you get the hang of it , it is easy and the dog really just learns they are gonna get a treat! LOL! Don't stress if it takes a while to get the hang of it. No I have never heard of a continuous glucose monitor on a dog. BTW, yes you can get a better BS than 200 BUT it will vary with dogs from day to day. Don't know why but it does. If it is consistently near a normal range for most of the day that is GREAT. Keep us updated, hope all goes well. Kay....Bo..Black miniature schnauzer.. 1995-2007..Diabetes & IBD. Emma 6 years non-diabetic. S/P mini schnauzer . Nick, S/P miniature schnauzer 1998-2010 Diabetic.
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bwalters4		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 23 11/20/09 08:51 PM	Thank you all for your support and advice. What a great group this is!! I will try the paperclip trick at the base of her tail. Shasta goes to the groomer next week and I will have her shave a couple of areas for me. I have another question, does 8 units for a 69 pound dog sound like enough? Is anyone else feeding their dogs the prescription Purina?
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Jody921		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3846 11/20/09 09:02 PM Administrator	You're welcome! You're using NPH right? There's been a couple of newly dx dogs on another board and I am having a hard time keeping everyone straight! Normally - the starting point for figuring out the insulin amt to give for a dog is 1/4 of their weight in units - then up to as much as 1/2 - so at 69 lbs, she should be started at 17 units and on up to 35. So yes, the amt that you are using is not alot for her weight. Are you noticing the drinking still - and when are you having a blood sugar check done? Fasting would be ideal. Food - now that a hard one. We all feed something different. Some do the diabetic formula's, some low fat, some senior, home cooked, some raw. I think the main thing is to find a food that they will eat consistently. That is the most important factor. You having a diabetic son, will know the importance of this. You can feed the best food in the world but it is no good if your dog won't eat it! We all do the best we can and then try and match the insulin with the food. You were feeding Science Diet Senior right? If she likes that food - you can continue to feed it - in my own opinion. Last Edited By: Jody921 11/20/09 09:04 PM. Edited 1 time.
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birdk.petswithdiabetes		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 11/20/09 09:18 PM	The usual dosage for NPH (Humulin N or Novolin N) is 1/4 to 1/2 unit per lb. twice per day. So No the 8 units is a low dose. BUT maybe your vet is starting slow. Nick is 17 lbs. He gets 6 units twice per day. The actual dosage can vary dog to dog. For example my dog Bo ( Bo diabetic 2004 to 2007) weighed 28 lbs. He finally regulated after 5 or 6 months on 24 units twice per day. He had to have such a lg dose due to insulin resistance and high fat levels in his blood. Nick at 17 lbs just requires 6 units so go figure???? Anyway it does vary but 8 units is low for a 69 lb dog. Usual would be 17 to 34 units twice daily, but maybe someone will chime in that has a bigger dog. I used the Science diet light for fiber with Bo as the fiber helps with diabetes. I am sure the Purina DCO is good also. Nick my diabetic now eats Blue holistic, turkey, rice or canned food with the dry. Is she still urinating, drinking a lot? When will the vet recheck her blood? On 8 units I would want it rechecked soon in case it is still running too high. How high was it at the vet office when diagnosed? LOts of ???, sorry. I use the freestyle lite meter. I have found it is the easiest for me and uses very little blood. I get the strips on ebay , about $40.00 for 100 which is about half price of pharmacies. When using a human meter you have to compare a blood value with the vet's lab machine as usually the meter will run a little low. I have to add about 25 points to Nick's result. Hope some of this helps!!!!! Good Luck....Kay Kay....Bo..Black miniature schnauzer.. 1995-2007..Diabetes & IBD. Emma 6 years non-diabetic. S/P mini schnauzer . Nick, S/P miniature schnauzer 1998-2010 Diabetic.
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Brandy mom		#14	[url]	[-]
Administrator Moderator Posts: 3887 11/20/09 10:17 PM	Hello and Welcome sorry I didn't welcome you sooner have computer issue. Yes they do have a Continuous Glucose Monitor for dogs, but I have only heard of them using them at the vet. I think I saw a video of the tail stick method. Let me look this weekend and see if I can find it. I do have one question is Shasta spayed? Dawn
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Carolyn98		#15	[url]	[-]
Moderator Posts: 3785 11/20/09 10:50 PM	Hello and Welcome! I used the tail method and Rorky was long haired. This really worked for me. I did not shave an area though. His fur naturally parted when he was laying down. I`m trying to find my picture that shows the site I used. I put him on the counter on a non skid pad and had frozen greens beans as a treat or bits of white chicken breast. I used the freestyle but I did use the clicker with clear cap for alternative site testing( i could see the blood bead forming) I used a Q-tip with small amount of Vaseline to part the fur further but took off the excess, this stops the blood from running into the fur and gives a great bead. Then with the clicker I pressed then released several times, I usually did two pokes sometimes more were needed, I never pinched up the skin, Rorky hated that!!! I would just add a little pressure then release until I could see a good sized bead. Rorky never acted like he felt a thing, never once flinched. He knew every sound the meter made and when it beeped and I had my reading he would look back and that is when he got the rest of his treats. I always wiped the test area with an alcohol swab when finished. I sure hope this is of some help. If I didn`t myself clear just asked OK. I used the Keto-diastick to test his urine but only to check for Ketones. I`m sure hope this site works for you, it will take some practice so DON`T give up, it will work!!!! Carolyn & My Angel Rorky, Pomeranian...Wt.15lbs...DOB..5/10/98...DX...4/5/06...Caninsulin..8u am...7u pm...MediCal(canned+dry) 1/4 can + 1/4 cup q12hrs..loves fr.gr.beans,charlie bears,chicken jerky & medi treats. Rorky received his wings July16/08. Last Edited By: Carolyn98 11/20/09 10:54 PM. Edited 1 time.
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winsmom		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 101 11/20/09 11:09 PM	I only want to say hi! I've been lucky that Winnie lets me stick his lip. When he was younger I didn't test much...he would go months and months without much of a change. Now that he is older his sugar has been much more labile and I test every morning. He's much more sensitive to the effects of exercise and we had several very scary hypoglycemic episodes during the summer Winnie was about Shasta's size when first dxed and we started at 17 units of NPH...now up to 22 in the morning and 21 at night. Now that he's older Win actually seems to feel best when his sugar is higher...around 200-250 in the morning Now I juggle his food more than his insulin. For what it's worth he's now close to 13 and is well into year #7 with diabetes...more than 1/2 his life "It is not true that life is one damn thing after another...it's the same damn thing over and over" Edna St Vincent Millay Judy, mom to Winnie, Reuben,, Hardy , Jr Jones and Leroy Scoochie ATB
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mommytoNash		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10004 11/21/09 12:55 AM Administrator	Judy talking about Winnie and her adjusting food got me thinking too. I'm not familiar with the Purina but, I think you said the Vet recommended it. Does it have a recommended quantity of food on the bag, based on your dogs weight? It's probably different than what you were feeding before (might actually be a bit less food). The SD Senior is a good food, but lots of carbs, so probably not best at this time. But, I wanted to ask if the Vet mentioned moving Shasta up a unit or so in the next few days? I felt that the 8 units seemed low considering Shasta's size, but there must be some reason your Vet has started her so low. Can you ask? So, if you could tell us what the Vet's game plan is for Shasta, that will help us in directing you a bit. When Nash was dx'd, if I remember correctly, my Vet started him at a conservative number, I think maybe 8-9 units......and Nash only weighs around 32 lbs. Then I came in every few days for blood work and we gradually made our way up. It probably took about 2 weeks to get him at the correct units, which was 12 for a long time (recently we're at about 10.5). As I was looking back over your original post I realized that you mentioned that your Vet said that Shasta needs to lose 10 lbs. I was rather surprised to hear this, as many of our dogs were 'under weight' when dx'd. So, I wanted to ask a couple questions. What issues made you take Shasta in for bloodwork? Did the Vet happen to mention what Shasta's bg's were at time of diagnosis? Were there any symptoms of diabetes? For a lot of us here, our dog began losing weight really fast, drinking up a storm and having frequent urination (and even accidents in the house). Nash's numbers were VERY high, but he wasn't in ketosis. His diabetes was a result of pancreatitis he'd had 3 months before which had apparently done quite a bit of damage to his pancreas. There are others whose dogs were on or had been on steriods, which can lead to diabetes. I am sure you're familiar with a lot of this, with a son who has diabetes. Anyway, glad you're here, and we hope we can help in getting Shasta to cooperate in have her bg's taken. ......don't want an incident like this! LOL Cindy and Nash Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day
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Johanna13		#18	[url]	[-]
Administrator Posts: 7339 11/21/09 09:10 PM Administrator & Owner	Just checking to see if you had any luck testing yet...
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rhodesian46		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1994 11/21/09 09:31 PM	Hi and Welcome, My dog Pebbles was 55 lbs. She was on Purina DCO kibble. I fed her 2 1/2 c 2 x a day. Maybe this can be a starting point for you. A far as testing you will get it I promise. Just try to relax as your dog will pick up on your nervousness. I had a callous that I used. It was easy for me. What is the game plan that you and your vet have decided upon. Have ya'll discussed when you will do an increase again? Usually 5- 7 days a curve would be done and the vet would see if a increase is warranted. You would save yourself money if you could get the blood out and do a curve yourself. Blood draw would be done at fasting then every 2 hours thereafter for 12 hours total. You are new at this. I promise you will get better.
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Johanna13		#20	[url]	[-]
Administrator Posts: 7339 01/22/10 06:21 PM Administrator & Owner	Havent heard from you for a while and was wondering how Shasta is doing ???
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