As Ricky and I have gone down this road, I have been so grateful for the advice and support of everyone on the boards. I know that a new dose takes about 5 or
6 days to "settle in", and no changes should be made in that time. I also know that you should only change one thing at a time...food or insulin or
exercise...not all at once. I have learned all these lessons from people who have learned through experience what works and what doesn't. Then, the other
day, I realized that I had been doing something for quite a while now that I gave no thought to, but is in the no-no category. I have been slightly tweaking
Ricky's insulin according to his fasting numbers...of course, never more than a half unit at a time...but I suddenly realized that I had always done this
with Butchie, too. I know in theory, it shouldn't work, but Ricky always has really good numbers, and we have been sailing along this way for well over a
year. What do you think? Am I really doing something so terrible....human diabetics dose on a sliding scale all the time...but I know that is a different
scenario altogether. Thoughts?
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It works...but is it wrong?
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 Ricksma |
It works...but is it wrong? |
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Posts: 193 (11/17/09 09:39 AM)
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Ricky Ricardo Williams, 11# Chihuahua dx July 2007 dob Sept 2003 Humulin N 3 1/2 u 2xday, Humulin R 1/2 u 2xday Baked chicken, baby food green beans, baked
W/D patties (2) All the kisses he can get. |
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mzizgayle |
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Moderator
Posts: 2957 (11/17/09 10:23 AM)
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When it comes to diabetes, it is not written in stone what is right or wrong...if you are getting good numbers by tweaking the insulin, then it can't be
too wrong, but do remember to discuss this with your vet to make sure, explain what you are doing, amount, etc...
people will tell you all the time what is right or wrong, but discuss with the vet and use your experience in dealing with this..in my first year in dealing with this, I had so many people telling me I was wrong or whatever and it freaked me out thinking what am I doing, but you have to listen to your furbaby and how they are reacting. each of us are different and react different to food and meds. I don't take insulin but I do know there is fast acting and slow acting that is taken at different times depending on the situation. |
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debbuna |
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Moderator
Posts: 2101 (11/17/09 11:41 AM) |
You know what Teresa? We do rant on so about what's right or wrong but those things are just guidelines. After years of dealing with your dog, you learn
what works, it is never an exact science. I strongly feel that newbies should follow the guidelines as much as possible until they achieve regulation and know
for sure, what they're doing. Changing dose based on a bg reading is generally not a good thing but you've been dealing with Ricky's illness long
enough to know what works for him. There are times when I have done that also, but remember that you and I know how to recognize problems that could result
and what to do to fix them. Someone new to this might not and that is the problem. Too much- hypo- do you know it and what to do? Too little-raging bgs- do
you know the signs and what to do? Rebound? All these things must be engrained in our heads as well as the individual reactions of our dogs before we are
capable of tweaking insulin for our diabetics.
You're doing a great job managing Ricky- you go girl! You know what to do.  and my Lucy, American Pugsley, age 15 -born 4/18/1996, DX. diabetic Nov. 07, blind 2/08, Weight 11 lbs., Humulin N 7 U , Homecooked chicken/white rice with canned Hills W/D My sweet, baby Lucy left me peacefully on October, 24, 2011 with her head on my shoulder and my comforting whispers in her poor little, deaf ear. I know she was met faithfully at the bridge by all her friends that went before her. Rest in peace, my baby. Lucy, 4/18/96-10/24/11 |
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 Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/17/09 11:42 AM) Administrator |
Treasa
I always tweaked Killians Insulin to fit his fasting numbers.... I also took the food I was going to feed in to consideration... I think when we really know our dog, and understand Insulin and the workings of it on our dog ... we can tweak !!! Some time I will admit that human diabetes and canine diabetes are not all that different... Its diabetes... and the difference is our dogs cant talk to us and tell us what hes feeling.... By testing and knowing our pet we have a good sense of what there feeling that day. Based on that we tweak the insulin to keep them at a even level.... So no you didn't do anything that's a no no.... Your a savvy diabetic dog owner who knows your stuff, and have earned the right to tweak ,, you know what your doing .!!! |
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Brandy mom |
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Administrator
Posts: 3837 (11/17/09 12:56 PM) |
I have been tweaking Brandy insulin for over 2 years. Sometime I tweak the regular insulin sometimes the N insulin. My vet aproved this within 2 units of
adjustment. He would laugh at me when I would call for an insulin adjustment. You know Brandy better than I do and you know what you are doing.
Love Dawn |
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rhodesian46 |
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Posts: 1994 (11/17/09 02:33 PM) |
Teresa you are good momma!!! Tweaking works for Ricky so don't ruin a good thing.
Every dog is different. We learn from this disease to watch our dogs. Watch their attitude,food intake,food,fecal etc. we become worried therefore we are in tune to our dogs. Not all dogs wills how that they are for example going into a hypo situation. Some will will be completely out of it and others will act normal. It is knowing what to do when this happens and how to handle it. For the new people they need to not tweak the insulin and wait 3-5 days for an increase if warranted. And as far as the R insulin they should not be using this unless their vet advises. I was never keen on using the R . Dawn and Johanna were. Teresa can you post some picks of Ricky? We all need to take new pics of our animals. It is due, So get out your digital!!!  
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winsmom |
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Posts: 101 (11/17/09 03:00 PM)
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If it ain't broke don't fix it
"It is not true that life is one damn thing after another...it's the same damn thing over and over" Edna St Vincent Millay
Judy, mom to Winnie, Reuben,, Hardy , Jr Jones and Leroy Scoochie ATB |
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mommytoNash |
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Posts: 9789 (11/17/09 08:19 PM) Administrator |
So, here would be the question I would ask. When tweaking Ricky's insulin, based on fasting bg's, are you basing this on a couple days of fasting, or
literally checking him everyday and changing him accordingly for that day?
I guess with the bigger dogs, the changes aren't as extreme, but when you consider what a 1/2 unit might mean to a 10 lb dog, in ratio to the actual amount they are receiving, that can mean some dramatic changes in bgs. Which can be bad if it causes a hypo. Of course, as several have mentioned, when you have experience, and have dealt with Canine Diabetes for years, you learn the signs to look for. Also to take into consideration is whether you are a 'stay at home furmom'. I believe you are Teresa, and that certainly helps your cause. For others, it wouldn't be advisable if we can't monitor our dogs closely with the changes. Once you tweak, do you stay at that level for at least a couple days? As Gayle said, it's hard with our pets because we can't ask how they are feeling, so we're just watching for signs. Some we've known, have been so consumed with making sure their dog didn't go blind, that they tweaked insulin for fear of high numbers causing the blindness to come on quicker. But, (haha) to finally answer the question, no I don't think you're wrong for doing this. You are certainly an experienced sugarbaby furmom! BUT, only because of your experience, and the fact that you are a stay at home furmom!
Cindy and Nash
Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day |
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mzizgayle |
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Moderator
Posts: 2957 (11/18/09 09:10 AM)
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Only you are with your furbaby and know how he is acting...and yes even humans 'tweak'...You know Ricky and you have become very adept to knowing what
to do and how to do, you are a very good mommy, don't let anyone tell you otherwise...everyone is different, they have their own ideas, even doctors
sometimes come up with wild ideas of what to do or not...
I have a brother on the insulin pump and he will give himself more insulin if he knows he is going to be out and eating what he should not...(he is a bad diabetic and won't exercise, watch his diet etc) At first when I was diagnosed, I followed everything to the letter, would freak out when numbers would go out of wack for no reason, and once almost walked out of the grocery store so frustrated leaving the groceries...But I took control, learned to read my body and now I have been known to pop an extra metformin when I just could not resist the chocolate dessert (man should be shot for making that) at the restaurant ROFL...no I don't do that often, maybe twice in the last 3 years.. and I know how to get rid of the food police if you have that problem ROFLMAO |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/18/09 11:53 AM) Administrator |
Gail.. what is a metformin?
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mzizgayle |
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Moderator
Posts: 2957 (11/18/09 12:14 PM)
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Metformin (Glucophage, Glucophage XR) is the medicine I take to control my diabetes..type 2 can be controlled with oral drugs, insulin and many can control by
diet and exercise. There are several oral type drugs to control, but this is the most popular and also can help lower the cholesterol levels, and other issues
which is good.
The insulin you give your furbabies is the same that humans take. |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/18/09 12:22 PM) Administrator |
Oh OK so your not a insulin user... Got it !!
My sister in law is also a diabetic and also uses a pill.. Gee wouldn't that be nice if our dogs could be type 2 ?? better yet no diabetes at all !!
Last Edited By: Johanna13
11/18/09 12:29 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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mommytoNash |
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Posts: 9789 (11/18/09 05:08 PM) Administrator |
This makes me think of a young friend of mine, Tom, who has diabetes (JD) and is insulin dependent. We were talking one day, and he was surprised to learn
that Nash has diabetes, and thought it was great that we can control it. He asked about tweaking, and said, 'oh yeah, you can't do that.....he
can't tell you how he's feeling'.
Yep, the challenges of being a furmom.
Cindy and Nash
Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day |
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lindsay write |
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Posts: 292 (11/19/09 02:45 AM) Moderator |
Teresa, I think you're doing a great job. After all these years, you know Ricky better than anybody. After dealing with Jenny's diabetes for a year or
so, when I'd call my vet to ask if I could change something (food, insulin dose, exercise - whatever), she'd often say, "What do you think?"
before she gave me her opinion.
I was just reading an article about communicating with animals and I started thinking that although we can't use verbal conversation with them (well, not 2-way!), we're probably using some kind of feeling - a sort of mental telepathy - something like that. Since you and Ricky are so bonded, it makes sense that you can feel what he needs. Course, sometimes we're completely out to lunch when it comes to feelings! But whatever you're doing, Ricky's good health is due to your good care. It takes awhile to understand what each diabetic needs, of course. Trial and error is often the name of the game in the beginning. But, after awhile, we all learn the individual needs of our dogs. Goodness knows, none of these animals is a "normal" diabetic! Is there such a thing??
Jac, Ella (golden retriever, not diabetic), Abbey (golden retriever/Irish setter, not diabetic) beautiful Angel Jenny (golden
retriever), and cats Mona and Ernie.
Jenny passed away February 15, 2008 at almost 14 years old. Weight: 65 pounds. Diabetes, myasthenia gravis, hypothyroid. Started on Caninsulin (Vetsulin) for 3 months then switched to NPH - 13 units twice daily. . |
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bwalters4 |
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Posts: 23 (11/25/09 01:18 AM)
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Brandy mom wrote: Does Brandy take two different types of insulin? |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/25/09 01:29 AM) Administrator |
Yes she does... so did Killian....
This is something we don't post because we don't want a new person that is new to all this to run out and buy R insulin.... This takes time to understand what you need to do to get the best result.... Brandy and Killian always got a fast food rise,...Immediately after eating... The Novelin N would not kick in for a few hours to help combat that food rise... So we added Novelin R ... Just a few units ( depending on the dogs weight),, combined with his shot of Novelin N combated the food rise... R is a fast acting insulin...And much more potent.. Much less is used. Its usually out of the system in about 4 hours,,, so it worked beautifully... This also can not be used if someone is not home testing... If Killians BG was low at food and shot time I would not use the R... I would calculate the food rise and not put him in a hypo situation.. So as you see there is a lot here to learn and learn you will.... In the end you will have it all together... you'll be a pro !!! your vet will ask you for advise !!ha !
Last Edited By: Johanna13
11/25/09 01:36 AM.
Edited 4 times.
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mommytoNash |
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Posts: 9789 (11/25/09 07:37 AM) Administrator |
I wanted to add that both Dawn and Johanna have/had dogs that are in excess of 75 lbs. This does make a difference when you're considering the ratio of
units to lbs of dogs and utilizing the R.
And, I know for Johanna, with Killian, she was a stay at home mom, and able to monitor Killian closely. I know for me, there are still things that I'm not confident doing at this point in my journey with Canine Diabetes. Time certainly is the thing that plays into all this. And exhausting all other avenues through food and regular insulin adjustments.
Cindy and Nash
Nash was born 9/2/1998, and is my sweet 1/2 breed Cocker Spaniel/English Springer Spaniel. He was dx'd with diabetes in November 2007 and is currently on 9 units of Novelin N twice a day. Nash went blind approximately 6 mnths after dx, has glaucoma and gets eye drops 5x day |
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Ricksma |
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Posts: 193 (11/25/09 09:50 AM)
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I certainly wouldn't want anyone who is unsure of how their pet would react to this "tweaking" to try it without speaking to their vet first, but
as you all know, I am here with Rick all day, and I feel I can pretty confidently do this without risking a hypo. He also gets a snack in the middle of the
day (at about the time his N peaks), so that is also a factor. Bottom line is, if I can keep his levels in a good range by doing this, then I think it is
worth a minimal risk. Of course, all that could change in a heartbeat if he ever hypo'd on me...lol...I would probably faint. I remember a bad hypo with
my Butchie so many years ago..I didn't home test, and he just fell over one day. I rushed him to the vet, and his bg was 12!! I am surprised he survived
that, but he did, and I have never forgotten how that felt. So, I do have that cautionary tale to tell, too.
Ricky Ricardo Williams, 11# Chihuahua dx July 2007 dob Sept 2003 Humulin N 3 1/2 u 2xday, Humulin R 1/2 u 2xday Baked chicken, baby food green beans, baked
W/D patties (2) All the kisses he can get. |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/25/09 11:46 AM) Administrator |
Teresa
You are so right !! I worry when new people see that we Tweak or mix insulin's... Not that they cant do it in the future.. But for them to even think its something they can do right now is dangerous... I explained about the use of R to answer your question. But I cant stress hard enough that R insulin is very temperamental and strong! It is very easy to over dose your dog if your using R and don't understand everything that goes with it... Therefore it is not a option for anyone just starting out.... So please leave the tweaking for later on when you know all there is to know about this disease , and can read your dogs symptoms at a glance. |
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Brandy mom |
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Administrator
Posts: 3837 (11/25/09 01:28 PM) |
Brandy has been diabetic for 3 1/2 years. It has just been the last year that I use R insulin all the time. So I have spent a lot of time and energy in to
testing. This isn't just something to try it is hard work to use R insulin. Plus I wouldn't advice it with out a vet consent. Your vet need to know
what you are doing should a emergency arise. What if a ER clinic called and your vet knew nothing about you using R insulin. Your dog could be easily overdosed
on insulin. It wouldn't be any fault but your own for not keep your vet in the loop.
I am not saying that no one should use this insulin. It just takes a 100% commitment to use R insulin on a regular basis. Dawn |
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Johanna13 |
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Administrator
Posts: 7207 (11/25/09 01:53 PM) Administrator |
Dawn I also didn't start using R until the last year of Killians life....
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