new here

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 15:01:11 PST

lindsay write wrote:

I think we're all truly humbled by your story, Joan. All those wonderful dogs are so lucky to have you but you're so lucky to have them, too. It's no wonder why you keep cruising the Internet for more disadvantaged pugs! They make life so challenging but so much fun. And heart-warming, too, as evidenced in the relationships you described.

We all have a better understanding about what's going on at your house! Yes, I think we all agree that quality of life is most important. And making sure your entire menagerie is kept happy by feeding food and treats equally and, as you mentioned, in a timely manner! You've got more of a puzzle than most of us but what the heck - we love a challenge. And you obviously love challenges, too, so hang in there with us and, hopefully, we can all help Bella.

Okay you asked for it, the liver diet....

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:20:50 PST

Thanks for the input Jacque. I think you are much too modest. it is getting late tonight, and we are ALL off to bed.

I will post tomorrow with food suggestions for liver.

Joan

ps I think you are all the nicest group on a forum that I have seen. 'Concerned mainly with the animal, and tolerant of us silly humans attached to them.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (lindsay write) — Thu, 10 Dec 2009 02:01:14 PST

I think we're all truly humbled by your story, Joan. All those wonderful dogs are so lucky to have you but you're so lucky to have them, too. It's no wonder why you keep cruising the Internet for more disadvantaged pugs! They make life so challenging but so much fun. And heart-warming, too, as evidenced in the relationships you described.

We all have a better understanding about what's going on at your house! Yes, I think we all agree that quality of life is most important. And making sure your entire menagerie is kept happy by feeding food and treats equally and, as you mentioned, in a timely manner! You've got more of a puzzle than most of us but what the heck - we love a challenge. And you obviously love challenges, too, so hang in there with us and, hopefully, we can all help Bella.

Do you have a list of things that are okay and not okay for a dog with hepatitis to eat? Maybe when we see the list, we can help you choose things that...

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Johanna13) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 16:04:37 PST

This is a really good topic... I'm so up in the air about this universal health care. there is so many sides to it...
If you have a chance can you open up this topic in the vent and shout forum....
There are so many here from different places that it would be interesting to hash out the pro's and con's .....

Vent and Shout

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:50:18 PST

I use it for fettucini etc. In Canada the mfg is Catelli. Called healthy Harvest yolk free . You can get it at any grocery store here.

By the way, I have been home cooking for these guys for yrs. hubby had heart bypass several yrs ago, and since then I cook only whole grain breads etc. don't even have white flour in the house. On that note, hope you guys don't go for that universal health care we have. when he had heart pains folllowed with bad stress test, they scheduled him for angiiogram, couldn't get him in for 6 months. Went down to Seattle and had emergency triple bypass the next day. Had to pay for it, but he is still alive. Most days it seems worth it. But if you guys go to the same care, we will have nowhere to go in an emergency!!!

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (debbuna) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:54:46 PST

Joan, whole wheat/egg white pasta?? That sounds wonderful, where do you find something like that?? Sounds like something I would feed Lucy and myself. I've never seen it, even in the health food stores here.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (debbuna) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:53:10 PST

That's so true Johanna. I have been eating the same food as Casey and that means eating every 3 hours or so of an extremely low carb (but not zero), high protein diet. I fought this tooth and nail- said I would gain weight like crazy, but no...I have not gained weight, and not only that, I am building muscle and looking leaner than ever. Who would have believed that?

It is true that when you starve the body, it stores fat. When you feed it, the metabolism kicks into high gear and burns it up. Amazing how the body takes such good care of itself. Survival is the name of the game. Our dogs are no different.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 14:37:08 PST

I think from a laymans (womans) perspective, this might also be complicated by a compromised liver. So just from a trial and error perspectivr, the only way I have found to get Bella's am numbers in a satisfactory range, is by giving the snack at bedtime, about 10pm and if I don't accompany it with a bit of insulin, then the snack does more harm than good.

this am bella was 216 so that was good.

So far she is tolerating the food change really well......for her. Thinking about replacing the brown rice with some whole wheat /egg white pasta it has lots more fiber, and might be easier on her liver to digest. Anyone tried this?

thanks again, Joan

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Johanna13) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:50:30 PST

Yes Gayle thanks for that....

I was just telling this to Marianne the other day.....
I'm so glad you explained it in layman's terms.
That is why its important for a diabetic to eat....

Its kinda the same theory if one is dieting....if you don't eat while on that diet the body will store the food you do eat instead of burning it...
This is because our body's are always trying to give it what it needs....
It will store the food because it don't know when it will get it again....
So eating small amounts of food every few hours like clock work now tells the body that food is going to be coming on a regular basis so now it has no need to store... so it starts burning........

As for the diabetic the same theory in a way.... If the diabetic does not get enough food, the pancreas overreacts thinking crash coming on, and will dump more insulin/sugars into the...

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (debbuna) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:03:35 PST

Thank you Gayle,

A great explanation of the Dawn Phenomenon in humans can be found here:

http://www.diabetesselfma...nitions/dawn_phenomenon/

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (mzizgayle) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 10:22:30 PST

There is what is called the 'dawn effect", where our livers and pancreas decide to have a party over night and not invite us (I am the human diabetic and have learned to joke in order to deal more effectively it does help instead of freaking out as I use to do) It actually happens when the body may go a little low and the pancreas overreacts thinking oh no, crash coming on, and will dump more insulin/sugars into the system.

I try to make sure my night number is over 100-120 which can be a pain since I am not a night time snacker. If I can maintain this, then my morning numbers will be within a 'normal' range for me..

This happens to all of us, not much you can do, but try to see what nighttime numbers are, and do talk with your vet regarding especially with dealing with this.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Wed, 09 Dec 2009 01:12:14 PST

Thank you everyone for your kind comments.

The night is the one time we have always had trouble with Bella's bg. With no treat whatsoever before bed, and her full insulin dose at 5 pm or so, by 3am she will be 400 or so. I have tried everything and anything. One very knowledgable lady (online) advised me that perhaps she is doing some healing during the quiet night hours. i don't know for sure, but when she starts her day really high, it makes everything so difficult to get back to normal for a short time and then do it all again. I know everyones first response is that she is rebounding, but she isn't. I have spent countless nights awake every single minute, and checking her sometimes as often as every 15 min. There really is no reasonable explanation for it.

So by trial and error (mostly error at first for sure) I found she needed a shot about midnight, even 1/2 to 1 Unit, then she is good all day as well. so then I found if I gave her a...

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (debbuna) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:17:50 PST

I understand your problems with the feeding times. I like the numbers you show, however, last night at 10Pm she was down nicely to 128 (that's beautiful!!!) and she was close to her lowest bg/ of the 12 hr. time period. Then you gave her food. I know how hard it is not to, I have one tiny pug mix and the chaos she can create at mealtime is horrendous so I feel your pain with 9 of them.

What if...I'm just throwing this out there, you could give her a couple green beans at night instead of 10% of her daily diet, and left that insulin out????? I think her midnight reading would have been lower than that and her fasting this morning as well.

You are doing an amazing job, really, just keep up the good work.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Aprilgirlsmom) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 23:00:08 PST

Welcome Joan!!!

After I wipe the tears and regain my composure...I must say you are a god send to these animals. In life there are so few that put their needs aside for their animals and for that devotion and dedication you are amazing.

I am still taking all this in though to you its all in a days work..
I am however curious if you are able to get Orijen food (I know its available in western Canada online) It has the low glycemic seal also and my dogs love it..
Welcome again..

Barbara

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Brandy mom) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 21:09:25 PST

Have you tried to use Humilin N three times a day? You will feed and give insulin every 8 hours. If the insulin is only lasting 8 hours why not give it every 8 hours.

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (mommytoNash) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:55:35 PST

Joan, what a group you have. I finally got the chance to take a look at the pictures, and you are truly an angel. You just don't get the full affect till you see them all sitting there together.

Somedays it must be total mayhem at your house! I would imagine the personalities are fun to deal with. You are a special lady, and your husband must be a gem!

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Johanna13) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 20:12:26 PST

"We are risking our lives by waiting till even 5:05." LMAO !!!!

With a diabetic you will be told over and over.... No snack, and treats, No No No !!!
I cheated too !!! I gave Killian treats at times and extra little snacks if the others were having one....
And yes we often paid the price for it....
But I just felt so bad that he needed a life also !!!! So yes I did break the rules...
We love them ! so how do we give the others a treat and not them?? they don't understand why not...
So after time the treats became non existent in the house....Unless they were a homemade diabetic treat.
Now that my boy has left me... Treats are back in abundance....

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:06:16 PST

Bella needs 10 oz of food per day to maintain her weight, If I give her all 5 oz (bid) and then 5U she goes low. But for some reason she will stay hi with 4-41/2. Since she needs to eat more than twice a day for the liver issues, this seems to work if I gave her a snack at 8am but without the extra 1U she will be over 300 within the hour. Can't explain all the physiology of the thing, but thats the result.

The timing is not for her alone, She throws an absolute FIT if she is not fed something when the other 8 eat. I just can't work out the logistics of feeding the whole herd at 5am..they all need to go out first...3 in carts...5 bladders and bowels to express...........plus a husband, who puts up with so much, but absolutely won't get up earlier than 7;30. So the rest of them get breakfast at 8am. \Now I have a herd that has been fed at 5pm for yrs. and you haven't lived if you don't see this herd start the noise at about 4:30pm. We are...

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Johanna13) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:36:36 PST

Joan
everything you did looks great !!!!!
I just was wondering why you gave the 8am 180 snack and 1U?
The 180 was a OK number so why give that one unit?

The food change looks real good and I think you need to give your self a few days to fully see the result...
So far so good !!!

Re: new here

feeds@kickapps.com (Johanna13) — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:17:47 PST

Joan
I cant say this with more seriousness ... You really need to see your vet if your going to start to use R....
R is very strong and one unit could send Bella into a hypo in a instant !

I only recommended R as a last resort and I really dont think we have explored all the options at this point yet.
Please do not go out and get a bottle of R and begin to use this with out starting out under a vets care....

Ok now that my panic over the use of R is said... Ill go read your post and what your feeding and doing with out stress... LOL.
Ill comment and so will others very soon..

new here

feeds@kickapps.com (pug) — Sun, 06 Dec 2009 10:59:48 PST

I have 9 pugs, one diabetic. Bella was diagnosed in Jan/09, just months after being diagnosed with chronic active hepatitis. I believe the diabetes was brought on by the prednisone she was prescribed for an ear problem.

My vet told me to leave her to die in Feb, thank God for the internet.

Bella weighs 16 lbs, vet started her on Caninsulin (vetsulin in US) that was a nightmare. I switched her to Humulin N in early Mar. and though she is still a bear to regulate, it is much better. I feed home cooked meals, test her with Freestyle (buy the strips on ebay) multiple times per day ..probably average 8-10 per day. I can keep her in pretty good numbers, but have to adjust her insulin, and give 4 shots per day. While I know this is unorthodox, it does work for her. I am home with her all day, and if she needs it I am up with her all night, not often but occasionally.

I have believed for some time that her diabetes regulation issues are compounded by the...